Why do Apple laptop upgrades cost 200% more than Dell's?

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 1:45pm

RUBISH!!!!

Just buy the stock one and upgrade via third party after purchase.

Just ANOTHER attempt to bring a company down... who BY THE WAY EARNED their customers!

iJah420 says get a grip.

ps. Can you run multiple OS's on a Dell ie, Mac OSX, Unix, Linux, Windoze?

NO!. GOD LORD!

Ian MorrisThu 26 June, 2008 2:04pm

Another excellent and well reasoned comment on the internet.

No one is trying to bring Apple down. But it's fair to point out that they are charging a large amount more than other companies. Isn't it? You can argue that Apple computers are somehow "better" or "prettier" if you like, but you can't justify charging 200% more for something like RAM.

And, FYI, you can install Unix, Linux and Windows on a Dell. You could even install OS X if you wanted to, but of course that would break Apple's restrictive proprietary EULA, and why do they do that, do you suppose? Is it to protect their enormous revenue from overcharging for hardware.

Best regards,

Ian

the dandy pThu 26 June, 2008 2:17pm

haha iJah420...you just got pwned!

WeAreStewartThu 26 June, 2008 2:23pm

Er. As far as I was aware iut was possible to run Linux and Unix on a Dell...and even OSX if you've got some tools handy. It's Apple who are locking down their software, not that Dell makes hardware incompetent to handle it.

And you are right. Third party upgrades are the way forward. It even says in the article that the base configuration are very similar.

But Mac's are more expensive. Full stop. There are some competetive areas, but if you compare all of Apple's portfolio to Dell's, Dell will come out cheaper.

But if youre a fan of Apple and willing to pay, that's your own business and nobody elses...

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 3:23pm

You obviously haven't seen Dell's web page in other regions. Ram upgrades on laptops and some desktops ranges between $200-$400. Not to mention that Vista eats RAM like a fat kid on an all you can eat buffet, while Mac OS X runs smoothly. I'm not even going to start talking about the other components prices. Building a Pc to match a Mac performance-wise, is generally more expensive (im not talking about gaming machines, we all know who wins in that area, I'm talking about normal computer use). Buy a $599 mac mini and a $599 pc, any brand, and let me know which system works best. And on the price tags, remember these are global companies. What they overcharge in one region or country, they set it as a discount in another one.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 3:52pm

Not sure what the point of the article is since pricing of options and upgrades has been a reality in many industries (e.g. how much do car manufacturers such as Ford vs. BMW charge for a sunroof or bigger engine?).

Those of us that are more technical have the option to research and buy the upgrades ourselves and install them ourselves at a much lower price (because we dont charge ourselves for our research time, knowledge, and install time). Some of us don't want to bother and see value in having someone else do that research and installation for us and are willing to pay for it.

Also, many customers don't see the Apple vs. Dell decision as just buying hardware. Their decision is based on harder to quantify but very real perception of experience and image. Again, this is the same with the car industry and explains why some people are willing to pay a large premium to luxury car companies such as BMW.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 3:57pm

people shouldn't get so offended by this. its the truth and sometimes the truth hurts but you have to realize that apple's are more expensive not only on the point of purchase but also for evertyhing else. why waist the time in having to send in your apple to get repaired because of the proprietary equipmetn and software when you can have someone go to your place and get it fixed the next day. can't stand having to send something in that i can fix myself. but unfotunatly Apple makes it close to impossible to fix it yourself. don't get me wrong apple's got great features, but i don't think paying 200% for those features is the smartest thing to do. flashy doesn't mean better.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 4:13pm

Apple is tooooo costly... Dell provides good value for money. My friend bought a Dell XPS 1330. Thts a cool machine too.. it has a CD Drive, network port and a lot more which mac air cannot offer. whats the point in carrying a ultra thin notebook if it cant do anything... Dell is far better in that way.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 5:13pm

To the car guy: BMW engines and sunroofs are different from those on every other car. They won't fit other vehicles. 667MHz SD RAM is identical across all laptops that use 667MHz SD RAM. There's no excuse for Apple to charge 200% more for it. They don't make the RAM, they get it from the same place as everyone else.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 6:05pm

If you are merely whining that Apple charges too much for their laptops, then go tell that to BMW about their cars. I'm sure the new Tarus or X-71 pickup is good enough, but just not to my taste.

My experience in the purchase path was somewhat different than you state here. (BTW: why are your calculations done in POUNDS? Do ya use Euros where you're from? Sorry, that was an inexcusable snipe.)

I recently purchased a Macbook with a 2.2 ghz core 2 duo 2 x 2 plus, or whatever Intel is calling their chip these days. When I jumped over to Dell to check out a comprable machine I was amazed that the difference was about $150. And then the Apple can run OS X and Windows VISTA, XP, 2000, 95, 3.11. Oh and linux. So what is the point of your argument?

As one of the pile-on baffoons tried to make an example of sunroofs, I say, buy a Ford. I'm sure your sunroof will work just fine. Don't ask me why the BMW sunroof costs more, I guess it is all the other stuff attached to it.

It's fine to envy the guy in the nicer car. It's okay to wonder why his motor sounds so much cooler and goes so much faster. And yes, he does pay the same for gas as you do. But to be angry because he's driving a sweeter car... What are you really saying here. Gosh, Apple you are so wrong to make so much money on your computers. And then you can hope that Apple's huge growth in the laptop market slows down when people realize they could buy a cheaper computer made by someone else.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 6:13pm

If you leave memory prices out, you'll get a different picture. Nobody, and I mean nobody orders their extra memory from Apple.

WeAreStewartThu 26 June, 2008 6:19pm

Keep it in pounds. CNET UK after all.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 6:42pm

When buying a Mac it's not all about the pretty package or the almost identical hardware. It's all about the OS and the software, stupid. You really should factor in the cost of anti-virus software over the life of the computer when pricing a Dell.

Everyone knows Apple overcharges for extra RAM. It is easy to instal RAM yourself in everything except the mini. It's a hell of a lot easier to instal extra RAM in a Mac than it is to upgrade Vista Home to the more usable XP Pro SP2.

One more word on RAM. There is cheap RAM and there is better RAM. Apple overprices better RAM. Cheap RAM fails a lot, wether you put it in a Mac or a PC.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 7:06pm

Strange comments to this rather straight forward story, So I will add one of my own:

I was going to 'switch' but then at an apple store when I was configuring my new machine, I came to the choices concerning RAM, it was then I noticed I was being taken to the cleaners or let's be fair, being ripped off by Apple (no Anonymous MAC is not placing in 'better' RAM just extremely expensive overpriced RAM). I asked one of their employees about this and they smiled and basically admitted they were ripping off customers. That was the end of my experience, bought a Dell and Vista (which is incidentally pretty damn good I find -- no problems after 7 months).

Lesson learned for Apple: "with all the hype about your products, if consumers feel like they are getting ripped off they will react negatively."

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 7:19pm

People will justify their over-spending to make themselves feel better about getting taken advantage of. Apple computers are for pretentious people who buy expensive computers, steal music and wear jeans from walmart.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 7:33pm

Need more information. Is it the exact same hard drive? Is it the exact same RAM? If Dell is using the same quality parts, then you have a convincing argument that Apple is charging too much, but until then, you don't have a proper argument.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 7:40pm

Anonymous, you can look yourself... don't be lazy! www.dell.com and www.apple.com But I do agree with you, a table comparing A to B would have been a much better way of presenting this information.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 8:20pm

Why on earth are ppl comparing an apple with a lemon?? ;-) lol.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 8:40pm

You are an epic failure amongst a fanbase that consists almost entirely of gullible idiots

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 8:49pm

I have both an imac & a pc. I moved the PC disk image into Parallels desktop for mac. I will concede the point that apple hardware costs more than similar PC hardware. The factor that causes me to use my mac over my pc 95% of the time is stability. XP runs in mac virtualization with more stability than it does with traditional PC hardware in my experience. So while others may tell me that I paid too much for my imac as compared to a dell, I have a more stable system that minimizes encounters with the dreaded BSOD. Apple will continue to charge a premium for their products because their target consumers will continue to pay the price premium.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 9:03pm

Yeah, I agree with the user above but my experience was just the opposite, the MAC kept crashing (MACs actually have BSOD screens as well) but my Vista install has never once crashed in well over a year. Go figure. I will keep my Vista laptop and my last MAC was sold over a year ago. I switched... but not the way MAC intended.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 9:23pm

Unlike some people here, I don't use MAC, I use a Mac. (I don't know who makes the MAC or what the acronym stands for.) The article makes a point, I agree, but I don't care. It's what happens to my wallet, my patience, and my data AFTER I've paid the acquisition cost that matters to me. I don't have to buy more stuff and I get my work done. The people at the Apple Store aren't my closest and dearest friends, but they make it easy to forget that. They all speak my language natively and fluently. If anything goes wrong, I can talk to a support technician—in person—without flying to India. And if they decide to replace the machine, my warranty doesn't end, it starts over again. So I don't care that the upfront cost of the Mac is higher than a PC, because I have to live with the computer after the purchase, and it is a lot easier to do that with a Mac.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 9:33pm

>ps. Can you run multiple OS's on a Dell ie, Mac OSX, Unix, Linux, Windoze?

Are you stupid? You can run ALL of those on a Dell, or any other PC for that matter.

PC hardware and MAC Hardware are essentially the same thing since MAC switched to Intel.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 9:56pm

"Apple computers are for pretentious people who buy expensive computers, steal music and wear jeans from walmart."

Reading that comment made this whole article worth reading...

P.S. Apple sucks... a lot

DavidRGilsonThu 26 June, 2008 10:12pm

A note to anyone who has posted, or will post, that you can DIY the upgrades yourself for less money. True, but you are missing the point of the article. The article is talking of how much the laptop makers themselves charge for such upgrades.

Besides, surely the fact that all the Apple fans can, say, upgrade their RAM, themselves far cheaper than Apple would charge them, should be telling them the same message as this article!

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 10:28pm

I am or was just about to replace my ageing Sony Viao with a newlap. I looked at Dell but won't give me business to a company that uses 0970 numbers. I don't have any faith in Vista (memories of ME) which leaves Apple; I was just about to buy their 13.3 laptop. I'm running my fifth BMW and don't mind paying to get quality. But it seems obvious to me that in the modern world of pc's, cell phones and the like, companies seem reluctant to attract trade by offering a reasonable quality product at a resonable price. A new laptop is very desirable but not at the expense of being ripped off. So I reckon I'll just put the money towards my next BMW.
Alan Dover uk

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 11:30pm

"Apple computers are for pretentious people who buy expensive computers, steal music and wear jeans from walmart."

So funny. So true.

I'd add, Apple fans need to take a shower, get a haircut, and find a job.

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 11:32pm

i own a macbook pro and oddly enough i dont wear jeans from walmart. in fact, i havent been in a walmart for quite some time. and btw i switched from a dell laptop, and thank god i got my macbook pro. i mean its a little more than the xps m1530, but lets see, its thinner, lighter, better os, better stock graphics card than the max you can get in the dell, and it looks great. my dell just could never keep up with this and every mac hater on here knows that, and of course you dont buy memory from apple, i got it from crucial for a good price. PCs are fine, but you cant bash mac users when a lot of your arguments are ignorant

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 11:37pm

why exactly does apple suck? dont bother answering, cause you're wrong, but whatever. they clearly dont suck at what theyre trying to accomplish considering their stock and market share have continued to grow while windows puts out pathetic things like vista, i had xp and liked it just as much if not more, and i switched to mac bc windows became a joke. paying 400 dollars for an OS hardly better than my current one didnt seem like a brilliant plan

AnonymousThu 26 June, 2008 11:44pm

What is it about CNET and all of its BABY sites. Why do they constantly come up with these inflammatory stories about Apple. OK, so they have negatives just like any other company, but it is very rare to see them give any Kudos. CNET rates apple products very well but on the flip side love to bring the company down a notch. I am guessing it has something to do with their advertisers. Just want to make sure that they level the playing field huh? So sad that most readers here are not privy to what CNET is doing.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:03am

yes CNET is presenting the facts

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:33am

I'm happy to spend ten times the trade price on RAM, simply to get a nice computer that doesn't look and act like a pig with three broken legs and a missing eyeball. That's why I choose Apple every time.

Enjoy your cheap components Mac-haters, I suppose you dredge up your lunch from the nearest litter bin too? What a wonderful way to live -- cost is everything hey? Can you even hear me from inside your newspaper cocoon? A house cost money did it? Better to have chosen a newspaper cocoon then. You sicken me to my core.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:36am

Macs are for filmmakers, artists and musicians, PCs are for lawyers, accountants and the unemployed. You do the math.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:41am

The world's most despicable people
-----------------------------------------

1. Coal miners
2. Hedge fund managers
3. PC users

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:46am

ok, give me your $599 and i'll give u a quad core with 4Gb of RAM, nvidia 8800gt, nforce 750i mobo, xp, 500 gb hd, and a 22" lcd monitor. this rig alone can handle everyday computing AND current games of today!

you know how i know?... because this is my rig. cost me $584.98 to build. i'll show you my receipts if you want

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:53am

and what was the labour cost on building that? As a Mac user on a rather impressive salary (around £100/hr) it wouldn't be worth the taxi ride to PC World, let alone bothering to work out what an nforce 750i is. Well done, really, well done. You haven't squandered your life. And in case you smugly point out that I have wasted my valuable time writing this comment, I haven't. I just dictated it to my butler while bathing in my champagcuzzi (a jacuzzi filled with Cristal).

Your life is unlikely to have a net worth greater than the cost of carpet cleaning the north wing. Later, proletariats.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 12:59am

so around £100/hr you respond to CNET stories instead, good use of your time, enjoy your sticky bath

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 1:08am

I just finished reading all the comments for this story. If you perform a quick synopsis you will see that the Apple people are inclined to be more pissy in their comments and the PC people are more out to explain the technology.

As an Apple Macbook user I am ashamed of what is extensibly not my crowd. As an Apple user I know Jobs is taking advantage of me but I have too much invested already with my equipment. My experience with Apple should be much, much better than it is. The extra memory should be half the cost and the most of the other upgrades should also be half the cost.

So because I have so much invested in them (the OS and such) I only buy barebones machines from them, then I immediately switch my loyalties to other suppliers. I like Apple's stuff very much, but I do not like them or trust them anymore.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 1:12am

cheers to the anonymous above this post, i also use macs but feel ripped off by apple. just have too much apple stuff to switch at the moment, but do have one vista machine that cost me peanuts runs photoshop just as well and has never once crashed. i am an apple fan but not blind.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 5:06am

I have a Dell laptop right now, and im soon switching to a mac book pro. I used to be like alot of the people here who like to bash apple. I only did so becuase 1) I really never used an apple product and 2) I wanted everyone else to think what i had was better than what all the Mac owners had. Every art course i have taken fills their classrooms with Macs. After using them for two years i have come to admit to my self that my PC can not compare to a mac. Even an iMac with 1/2g of memory runs better than my PC with 2g of memory. If a mac can use their memory 4+ times better than a pc ill be willing to 4+ times more for it.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 5:24am

"Apple computers are for pretentious people who buy expensive computers, steal music and wear jeans from walmart."

Hilarious

Crap, that sucks... I guess I'll have to buy a Mac...

Plus, I was gonna buy a mac, but I'd have to pay another 300 to get Vista, which I must have for compatibility issues. That ends up at about 2,500. But, I could get my Dell, almost the same specs, for about 1,900. Um, save 600 and buy an xBox + games, or get a Mac and nothing else...

I'm going with Dell.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 7:24am

Ok, bottom line... you get what you pay for. I unfortunately have to use Dell laptops for work, and we always get the latest line up every three years. I can tell you that it takes approximately 3 weeks for that damn Dell laptop and inferior MS software to start giving me the blue screen of death. Not to mention the casing is cheap, the screens look awful and its slow as a dog. On the other hand, every time I turn on my Mac Book Pro, I smile and truly enjoy using it. In all the time I have had it (8 months now), it has never failed... I'm totally serious -- never. So Yeah, guess what... I'll pay more for that. Just like BMW drivers pay top dollar over Ford cars. You get what you pay for.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 8:37am

@Anonymous:
Macs have a BSOD? really?

Now to think about it, I have heard of somebody who heard of somebody who heard of somebody that got this Kernal panic or whatnot that required him to reboot, but I thought that was an urban legend.

the dandy pFri 27 June, 2008 12:55pm

When the hell did cnet.co.uk turn into a message board discussing Wallmart?
Surely if you want to discuss an American grocery retailer (of which there are none in the entirity of the UK), then go on an American site and do it.
To all of the 'amonymous' people posting; if you feel the need to right more than a line or two, why dont you just sign up to the site, it takes two minutes, means that people can address your point directly, and makes the whole site seem a little bit friendlier!

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 4:15pm

Very strange comments from both parts! I can never understand the hate Mac users get from MS fanboys! Ever wondered why Mac users sometimes seem arrogant? You got your answer.
Anyway, I am myself a happy Mac user for more than 10 years (5 -five- years of absolutely NO Grey Screen Of Death), and, yes, I agree: prices for parts from Apple are outrageous (and they ARE better than they used to be!). It's probably their biggest mistake now that the Mac (and not MAC, it's not an address) is becoming more popular…
OK fanboys, accept this fact. OK MS fanboys, get a life!

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 5:13pm

i bet this guy who wrote this ahs a apple.. APPLE ARE THE BEST

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 5:27pm

Sure you can. I dual boot Ubuntu and Vista on a Dell laptop.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 6:07pm

I'll pay 400% more for my mac, I just love it

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 8:50pm

I am in complete agreement that Apple overcharges for its products by systematically engaging in sentimental and emotional black-mail ! For all of you Microsoft bashers an Mac lovers take this - Bill Gates at least had the heart to give away his earnings to charity while Steve Jobs chose to steal money from shareholders like you and me by back dating stock options ! The guy is a crook and should go to jail - period and I am not gonna aid and abet an enterprise run by a white collared criminal.

AnonymousFri 27 June, 2008 9:16pm

"Not to mention that Vista eats RAM like a fat kid on an all you can eat buffet, while Mac OS X runs smoothly"

^What does that even mean? If you are going to do a comparison, compare apples to apples, not apples to pork chops. Why don't you tell everyone how much ram OSX needs? All I know is that they love 1GB+ of ram also.

AnonymousSat 28 June, 2008 12:22am

Hardware is only part of the equation. The Microsoft operating systems cannot compare to Leopard. I just bought a new Dell for an employee. It took me four hours to load all the updates and this was will the help of a Dell tech. Had to do it one at a time because it would not work automatically. A new Mac takes no time at all and can easily transfer software (and file) to a new Mac. Try that with a PC.

A Mac just works. If you factor in the time loss playing with Windows and Windows server software, the Mac is far less expensive.

AnonymousSat 28 June, 2008 1:01am

Who cares if apple charges more, it's a better machine and you get what you pay for in the long run. Figure in Dell's crappy customer service and constant repairs and the Dell cost more. My wife's Dell laptop was in the shop 7 times in 2 years. We switched to MacBooks and have never had a problem. I also love the fact that when I was learning how to use a Mac I could call the Apple 800 number and get help free of charge.

I'm not sure why Crave is picking on Apple for making a profit. Maybe the failing Dell computer company should take a note from their business model. Why is it that Cnet seems to be jealous of a successful company??

AnonymousSat 28 June, 2008 1:22am

"Macs are for filmmakers, artists and musicians, PCs are for lawyers, accountants and the unemployed. You do the math."

Animations for films, such as the HULK and KUNG FU PANDA, were rendered on Windows workstations. I have friends with Macs who have law degrees and can't find a job. Which math am I supposed to do?

the dandy pSat 28 June, 2008 5:00am

Who are all these windows people that keep getting screens of death, or keep having to install fixes...if you are able to turn on a computer, then you are able to run windows.
the arguement that OSX 'simply works' is utter nonsense, not since the days of windows 98, or ME at the latest, have windows computers simply crashed...and if you have problems updating software for a windows pc...then you really shouldn't own a computer at all, seriously, you neded a dell tech 'expert' to install some automatic updates, can you not press 'install' on your own?
The arguement that windows crashes is utter tripe...windows does 99% of what users want it to do, when they want to do it. It might be slightly easier to use an apple OS, than to configure and install programs yourself on windows, but to say that windows simply crashes, or lets you down is simply untrue, and moreso a fabrication of the truth that is still somehow percieved to be true by virtually every apple fanboy out there...just because it is new, shiny and in the minority, does not mean it should be followed...apple is not a cult that should be stuck with, it is a trans-global company just like microsoft, that has somehow moulded it's image to that of a respected individual computer maker.
Apple is exactly the same as Microsoft; they are in it for the money...nothing else, yet for some reason apple fanboys seem to think that they are cared more for than a pc user...that may be true if you pay for the apple aftercare...

AnonymousSat 28 June, 2008 8:36am

From an American standpoint the Mac is still a better deal. Two similar spec machines (MacBook vs. XPS M1330) is a difference of only $75 with the MacBook being more expensive. The real question concerns the value of this $75. Customer satisfaction is historically higher with Apple computer without the need to run virus protection yet maintaining the ability to run windows with all of its software. As a previous DELL owner who experienced numerous problems with their hardware and costumer support I had to laugh at the new class action suit accepted by the courts against DELL for their failure to honor their products. So what is $75 worth to you?

AnonymousSat 28 June, 2008 11:10pm

My dell laptop: After about one year the RAM and hard drive needed to be replaced, the DVD player stopped working, the fan stopped working properly, and MANY other parts were replaced (luckily it was under warranty). Still left me screwed for weeks while at university. Not to mention the design caused the keys to leave permanent imprints on the screen when it was closed and the battery was s***.

My Apple laptop: Almost 3 years old and running solidly. Battery life is decreased but less than I would expect. And I've never had a blue screen, missing DLL, or had to reinstall the OS. I am an Apple customer for life, it's worth the extra cash.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 3:15pm

Just a comment regarding multiple OS's on a Dell.

..."ps. Can you run multiple OS's on a Dell ie, Mac OSX, Unix, Linux, Windoze?

NO!. GOD LORD!"...

er, actually I run a dell laptop with duel boot windows XP & linux ubuntu with no problems at all.

so yes you can!

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 3:37pm

So far no one has mentioned two things:

1) Apple has the highest customer satisfaction ratings of all the PC vendors out there. The higher ratio of people to customer interaction is one reason. The fact you get more localized help is another.

2) Warranty support - AppleCare costs the same regardless of how much RAM or size of hard drive. The only requirement is that it covers only Apple OEM equipment or Apple upgrades, not 3rd party. So whenever you have a problem, if you've upgraded, the first step is to undo everything you went through to upgrade. I've owned Apples for many many years. Under AppleCare they replaced the main logic board of my Apple PowerBook 3-days before the AppleCare was up without giving me grief - plus they extended it for another 90-days on the replacement. So far Dell or HP has never done that for me.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 3:48pm

Ummm...

I use a Mac, but Apple did get done , sued, for putting
Sub Standard screens on their Laptops, which they themselves speculated
as being top notch.

I think the story was on Slashdot.

Apple moved from creativity into a style over substance mega brand,
Its the badge baby, allegiance to the badge.

I think more people just jump ship to linux, or run OS X on different machines,
Some people don't rely on the warranty that much because the machine pays
for itself pretty much on the first job.

But OS X on a panasonic toughbook would be lovely.

Yes your right, only a nutter wouldn't go to 3rd party to install RAM.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 3:54pm

Its simple.

Apple's customers are willing to pay more instead of learning how to do a simple upgrade, and Apple takes full advantage of that stupidity.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:19pm

I always wonder: do they mean 200% more (300% of original or 3 times the cost) or do they mean twice as much (100% more)? You see these accurate sounding numbers bandied about but you never really know what they mean. Does anyone care? I just thought that maybe in a technical forum they would actually use it right.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:22pm

Apple is known for being more expensive on all their parts. But also apple is known for their great support that support cost money. Apple will also install those parts for you how about dell will they? Have you ever tried to get support from dell? I have you ever get support from apple very two different experiences. Now with that being said I have a Macbook pro and I upgraded the memory with memory from crucial. I know what I am doing and I feel I can support myself on these simple issues.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:34pm

Unless you are looking comparing specific model numbers than this article is pointless.
Apple does charge a premium on their upgrade components but you also have to look at their business process as well as their supply chain for this. I would have though a more in depth article on why this is, rather than what was written, would have been a much more compelling story.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:35pm

If you can charge someone more for something and they are happy about paying it, what do you care?

A bottle of Poland Springs water at the Four Season's Hotel is twice the price of 'the same' bottle of water at Motel 6.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:37pm

you're an idiot, apple knows they can rip users like you off because you don't realize that mac's aren't made with pure gold. have fun paying 200% for some ram!

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:40pm

"... Buy a $599 mac mini and a $599 pc, any brand, and let me know which system works best. ..."

I will admit that the Mac will work better - That is because the macs are specfically designed to run on the hardware they give you. Which is why it costs so much to upgrade them

Take the original X-BOX - Essetially it was a P3 700 with a Gefore 3 chip - but the graphics on that looked so much better and the games ran a lot smoother because the industry knew what to code for - they knew the exact hardware that the was going to be played on so they were able to optimize the code. This does not happen on a regular PC. They can not specifically code the programs to an Intel processor or a Nvidia graphics card they have Matrox, ATI, Nvidia's Quadro to worry about so they have to set up globally accepted coding standards.

The same principal applies to MAC vs PC. If you go to any computer outlett with a diverse software department you will always see a more robust section for PC/Windows than Mac. Not only because Windows dominates with 90+% of the market but because the coding standards are globally accepted.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 4:59pm

Ah yeah, well I may drink Poland Springs but I built my own PC's and upgrade them myself so I guess I'm not that stupid after all. The point is an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Go back to business school.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 5:15pm

There is a simple reason for this. Apple has a whole legion of lemmings programmed to expect that their stuff costs more. So the lemmings will simply pay more for the apple stuff. Never mind it is exactly the same product, from exactly the same assembly line, assembled adjacent to the one Dell puts in their machine.

It's all mindshare, and Apple has managed, somehow, to convince people that they should pay 200+% more for the same item.

Kind of like how M$ has managed, somehow, to convince people that it is normal for your computer to crash 3 times a day and need to be rebooted whenever you make any configuration change, no matter how minor the change.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 5:49pm

The answer is simple: because there are enough morons out there paying for that s***.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 6:22pm

Apple chassis and operating systems are not "bespoke". "Bespoke" means "custom made exactly to the customer's specifications".

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 6:33pm

You can run multiple OSs on a Dell (Parallels, VMWare). You can't run MacOs because Apple cripples the software so it won't run on anything but their hardware.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 6:38pm

WAKE UP APPLE FANBOI! APPLE IS OUT TO @#$K YOU AGAIN

APPLE'S CAN BE A GREAT SOLID COMPUTER, BUT @#$% AN APPLE - I BUILT MY OWN MACHINE FOR A MERE FRACTION OF THE PRICE OF A LESS POWERFUL APPLE... IT RUNS MORE APPS, HAS NO PROBLEM WITH MULTIPLE OPERATING SYSTEMS, AND I'M NOT SOME DELUDED IDIOT WHO THINKS A PC IS A LIFESTYLE CHOICE WORTH PAYING FOR

(btw, don't bother arguing apple-dolts... I've had several apples & they ran fine - now if only they were worth the cash for anyone but a music producer or graphics dude...)

JC

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 6:46pm

I should admit... At least Apple never shoved a POS like Vista down thier users throats...

But I'll still take my XP/win clone

JC

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 7:12pm

Actually you can run multiple OSes on a Dell (any x86 computer) at the same time. How? VMware, virtual PC, or actually running OSX on your 'pc'- non-apple hardware, and loading up Boot camp!

The x86 architecture is very generic and so its just a matter of bypassing the security measures apple put into Macosx to attempt to prevent from being used in a 'vanilla' x86 machine. This has been cracked for a long time. Anything you can do with an apple, you can do with a vanilla x86, except I don't know of any pc laptops that have inertia sensors on them like the Macbooks, but software-wise I am correct.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 7:36pm

Heh, I just bought a HP LaserJet 5200. To upgrade it with 512MB RAM original HP memory would've cost me somewhere between 550-750 euro. Instead I got the equivalent Kingston memory for about 25 euro.
And here you are complaining about a 200% increase... Bah!

- Peder

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 8:27pm

It's been that way since the Apple II days. I remember buying a replacement keyboard for an Apple II in the mid 80's. Cost me $100. Replacement floppy drive was almost $200.

Apple owners (I was one) usually like to replace parts with original Apple stuff.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 8:28pm

Apple has been doing this for years. What I'm surprised about is how long it's taken someone to take notice and write about it. When they sell you an upgraded hard drive that costs $40.00 brand new out of the box at any computer hardware retailer for $120.00 it further cements my view. Especially since they're using generic PC components for these "Mac" systems anymore anyway. They are no doubt taking advantage of those who couldn't install upgrades on their own. It's sad really, but some people are brand loyal. The day a Mac is cheaper than a PC I'd buy one in a heartbeat and put the latest Microsoft OS on it. But since they've been doing this a long time already, I hardly doubt that will ever happen.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 8:38pm

Plain and simple so everyone can understand. Mac and PC share the following similarities. They use the same brands and models of hard drives, the same INTEL CPU, and the same brands and models of memory. Where performance is concerned, it's all about Memory, CPU, and hard drive access times/rotation speed. Since neither of these things are set by the companies that manufacture PC's or Macs, it's up to the consumer to pick the right parts. In essense, because these two platforms share the same processing power as a PC. they're both PC's. In that comparison, since they're both essentially the same platform at this point, you could equate this to a pair of jeans. Polo jeans, and Wrangler Jeans, both use the same material cut, sewn together, and stonewashed at the same plant in Mexico. One puts a logo on it that says Polo and charges $120.00 for a pair of jeans, the other sticks a logo on it that says Wrangler on it, and charges $25.00. My question is, what kind of moron do you have to be to spend more money on the same product? Is your self esteem REALLY that low that you have to have the $95.00 label so your friends/associates will approve of who you are? Would you buy corn on the cob for $5.00 an ear from "Ritzies Grocery store", when that same $5.00 will buy three dozen of the same ears from the same supplier right next door at "Ghetto Bob's Bargain Grocer"?

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 9:01pm

The funny part is that Dell also overcharges customers, which means Apple's prices are even more outrageous that this article lets on. Just 2 month ago, when ram was worth about 20$ per GB, Apple was still selling theirs for 200$ per GB, x10 the retail price. They've since lowered their price to 100$ per GB. (which is still five times as much though...)

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 9:17pm

"and what was the labour cost on building that? As a Mac user on a rather impressive salary (around £100/hr) it wouldn't be worth the taxi ride to PC World, let alone bothering to work out what an nforce 750i is. Well done, really, well done. You haven't squandered your life. And in case you smugly point out that I have wasted my valuable time writing this comment, I haven't. I just dictated it to my butler while bathing in my champagcuzzi (a jacuzzi filled with Cristal).

Your life is unlikely to have a net worth greater than the cost of carpet cleaning the north wing. Later, proletariats."

Building a computer takes about, 2-3 hours max. maybe 4 if you count OS install. Even at 100 dollars per hour it would be cheaper to build your own pc.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 9:33pm

It's on service. When you buy a Dell, do you go through Dell with all your issues? Of course not. You go through the manufacturer. What if you didn't read the fine print of basic (sometimes extended) and they said they don't cover certain issues with the product (like scratching the platter of a HD)? With Apple you are covered by only them! You have an issue with your computer, take it to a Genius Bar, call up Apple Support and have them deal with it. I believe they are "more" expensive because of the service they offer their customers.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 10:09pm

"I will admit that the Mac will work better - That is because the macs are specfically designed to run on the hardware they give you. Which is why it costs so much to upgrade them"

Not any more. These days a Mac is designed to run on stock-standard Intel motherboards with standard everything built in. They only thing proprietary in there is the EFF firmware. They work "better" because they have stable mature drivers to run stable mature components built using stable mature processes, all engineered by Intel. If I built a PC with all the same stock-standard parts in a modern Mac, It would run XP just as stable as any Mac with OS X. The switch to Intel has done Mac's a world of good.

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 10:50pm

lol interwebz

AnonymousMon 30 June, 2008 11:40pm

The reason Apple hardware is so expensive is that they have to subsidize all of the software development from hardware sales. Developing all that "cool" software costs, and since they don't sell the software (OS X, etc.) they have to compensate in hardware prices. Also, if people will pay for the cool Apple logo, you may as well get your money's worth.

I've maintained for years that Apples are overpriced.

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 1:11am

people like to buy expensive things, status symbol. apple obviously playing on that.

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 4:31am

"ps. Can you run multiple OS's on a Dell ie, Mac OSX, Unix, Linux, Windoze? "

Absolutely

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AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 8:18am

I have been using my MacBook Pro with the overpriced ram for over a year now and it has been a very pleasant experience. In every respect that Windows makes me unhappy Mac OS makes me happy. I get so tired of waiting for everything in Vista and Windows XP. One difference between owning a Mac and a Windows machine is that Apple tests the Macs with all configurations of the authorized hardware and therefore gains a reliability that Microsoft cannot match. I know I pay more for hardware, but the quality of my experience with the total system performance is worth it to me. It is hard to put a price on your time and your satisfaction, but if I did, it would be higher than a few hundred dollars for a hard disk or some memory. I don't shop at Wallmart.

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 10:36am

lol, all the fanbois are here defending their right to get ripped off!

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 1:28pm

Lol Macs, really, grow up and stop playing with kids computers.

Oh and if they're better than PC's then someone please tell me exactly at what they are better at ? They can't play games and barely run office suite stable. So no business (office) and no pleasure (games).
Oh wait, they can view the interwebs and er, play MP3s and stuff like that. Really, you'd be better off on an Amiga.

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 1:39pm

"Oh and if they're better than PC's then someone please tell me exactly at what they are better at ? They can't play games and barely run office suite stable. So no business (office) and no pleasure (games)."

Grow up, kid... have you really tried that? don't embarrass yourself...

"better off on an Amiga"

Yeah. as if you knew what an Amiga is... maybe you think is girlfriend in spanish?

Come to think of it... All of you, Grow up... both (MS AND Apple fanbois) don't look more than a bunch of whiners to me...

"Mine does this, but your's dont"

Jeez... they are MACHINES. They do what the SOFTWARE tells them to do. If there is no good piece of software that does what you need for one type of machine, use another or write your own and stop complaining!

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 2:37pm

You're right Ian, but their hardware isn't enormously expensive - only their upgrades. I usually advise people to avoid the upgrades at time of purchase (apart from maybe a bigger HD if they really can't live with a large capacity external drive) as the RAM can be upgraded without invalidating your warranty, whereas the drive will mean opening the case up and WILL void the warranty unless an authorised Apple reseller (or agent) does it for you.

RAM upgrades are of course very very cheap from people like Crucial - typically you can get 2 or 3Gb for a Mac for about 20-30 quid. A hell of a lot less than Apple would charge when buying new. Plus you can offset that cost by selling your old RAM sticks on ebay!!!

Also the EULA doesn't prevent you from installing it on non-Apple hardware. It's only words... it can't MAKE you do anything. No, instead they use software (kernel extensions) to try to prevent you from installing on non-Apple hardware. You can get around this by writing your own kext files (or modifying Apple's to work with your hardware), made simpler by using hardware as close to Apple's spec as possible (which would cost you a lot more - Apple do actually sell their systems cheaper than you can build a genuine equivalent, I know, I've tried), although not completely possible as the Intel processors used are not available anywhere else and neither are some of the graphics cards (built specifically for Apple by the Intel/NVidia). Even when you do get a system patched and working you can't use software update, unless you want to keep repatching kexts after every security update or minor system revision...

AnonymousTue 1 July, 2008 10:36pm

"I'd add, Apple fans need to take a shower, get a haircut, and find a job."

I take showers daily. I get a haircut every month, and I have a job.

Some PC fans need to stop being an ass.

AnonymousWed 2 July, 2008 1:24am

Yes... You can run multiple OSes on a Dell. Granted, the process is not as user friendly. And apple does mark up shiny, silver widgets just like nike, you're buying a "brand" not necessarily quality. Damned apple zealots. ;)

AnonymousWed 2 July, 2008 1:33am

I would argue that, nine times out of ten, the problem exists between the keyboard and the chair. Arguing over Macintosh vs. PC is like arguing Ford vs. Chevy. They're both pieces of crap, just in different ways. For example: Macintosh computers are great for some video editing, sound editing and media programs, but there is a reason Flame is run on a PC (Stone FS limitation). They are great for home users with a little more disposable income, but in a production environment and to a system administrator (such as myself) they are a nightmare, unless paired with more robust Linux and Microsoft services and/or operating systems. Apple just cannot cut it as Enterprise Grade hardware. There is room for both, and both are good for different things, so why can't we put aside what giant babies Ballmer and Jobs say, and just move on.

(Written on a Macbook Pro, with Leopard. and it only beachballed once ;) )

AnonymousWed 2 July, 2008 1:13pm

3rd Party parts are the way to go done it several times - always with a happy outcome.
Want to be ripped off try Thinkpad vendor lock-in for optical drives, hard drives, and internal wifi cards.
How can this sort of rampant anti-consumerism be legal?

No more apples for me (I haven't been all that impressed) no more Thinkpads too expensive @ spec. Something cheap and close to disposable next-time.

AnonymousWed 2 July, 2008 3:24pm

Sure you can run multiple OSes. Are you mad? Its *all* the same hardware. The only OS you can't run is OS X and thats because Apple doesn't want you to.

AnonymousSat 5 July, 2008 3:35am

because dell is a piece of s***.

AnonymousTue 15 July, 2008 2:33am

This isn't about the cost of the components, it's about a manufacturing and supply chain process. Apple has optimized their supply chain for a couple hundred SKU's, Dell has optimized theirs for customization. Apple keeps their costs down by forcing most customers to purchase the "standard" components, while Dell does just the opposite. Apple is making twice the profit when you customize their laptop, because it costs more for them to customize it than it does Dell. Supply chain management 101.