Mac Mini vs. Microsoft Media Center: Round 1
Tags: microsoft, mini, remote control, fans
Microsoft has been desperate to claim the living-room as its trophy wife, but a series of attempts to nail the Media Center concept have largely failed. Noisy PCs with fans blaring don't really appeal to many of us.
After a hard day at work, slaving in the sickly glow of an Excel spreadsheet, the last thing you want to do when you get home is run a spyware removal tool and edit the registry before you can get Shrek to play. Still, Microsoft was the only real option last year.
We've decided to pit Microsoft's Media Center offerings against Apple's new Intel Core Duo Mac Mini. A newcomer to the PVR scene, the dual-core Mac Mini is no bigger than a Bible (indeed some Mac fans will consider it thus), and capable of running full 1080i high-definition video. It also comes with a bundled remote control. The Mini is practically fanless. Although a small fan will audibly kick in if things get very hot, in normal operation it's almost silent.
Unlike
our experiences with most
Windows PCs, you won't have to turn up the volume to mask the sound of
the small jet plane taking off inside. But Apple's G4 towers were once
notoriously referred to as 'wind-tunnels', so PC manufacturers are not
alone in this problem. However the majority of Media Centres we've
looked at are distinctly noisy, especially in comparison to a DVD
player or video recorder.
The Mini comes pre-installed with Apple's Front Row software. This is an extremely slick interface that lets you browse your iTunes and iPhoto libraries using the Apple remote control. It's a tough call between this interface and Microsoft's -- both are glass-buttoned masterpieces and easy to navigate. There is, however, one snag with using the Mac Mini as a PVR, and that's the absence of a built-in TV tuner. We've suggested before that the reason Apple hasn't included this is because it views TV as a declining technology. Apple probably intends iTunes to eventually usurp terrestrial and satellite TV.
Apple already offers TV show downloads to its US customers, but we'll have to sit tight over the coming months to see where the company takes its video download service. Steve Jobs' massive shareholding in Disney is certainly grounds for interesting speculation.
If
you want to use your Mini as a video recorder, the easiest solution
right now is to get hold of a USB digital tuner and plug it into the
back of the Mini. We used the Miglia TVMini tuner on our review model
and it worked immediately, tuning into all available Freeview channels
and displaying a crisp picture on our 32-inch Philips Ambilight LCD.
The Mini is as fast as a dedicated hard-drive PVR, and records live TV seamlessly. However, we're having ongoing problems matching the resolution of the Mini to the slightly unusual resolution of our LCD (1,366x768). This means the picture slightly overscans. This may be a problem with the TV refusing to reposition the picture, so we'll be checking it on other LCDs soon. However, compared to the hair-pulling ceremonies we've held getting Window Media Center PCs to display anything at all on a TV, the Mac has delivered a nasty right-hook to Microsoft's fighter.
For video iPod owners, recording using Elgato's EyeTV2 is nothing short of a revelation. Not only can you schedule and record live TV, but you can save it in a format that is used by the video iPod. It's a very smart solution for any commuter who wants to catch up on their favourite shows on the train to work. Microsoft Media Center can't export video in an iPod format.
Ding DING! We've reached the end of round one, and the Microsoft Media Center is already panting in the corner of the ring. The Mac Mini automatically recognised the LCD TV we're using, and the third-party tuner was similarly straightforward to set up. Compared to the hours we've spent coaxing similar results out of some Microsoft Media Center systems, the Mini is definitely ahead so far.
It
can't be understated how frustrating it can potentially be to get a
Media Center PC to communicate with a TV. It's easy for the
technical-minded to overlook this simple fact, but anyone who is used
to a DVD or video recorder 'just working' will find that Media Center
PCs are sometimes not an easy alternative. Several systems get it
right, but many have problems. The Evesham Mini PC, for example, worked well straight out of the
box --- just like the Mac Mini does. But this is often not the case. We
can't count the number of times we've had to plug in a regular screen
and tweak monitor settings.
We'll continue to test the Mini over the coming weeks and keep you updated on our experiences. Check back for Round 2, when we'll be comparing the TV scheduling systems. It's likely that Microsoft will scream ahead in this respect, their PVR software is far superior to anything currently available to Mac users. Expect this battle to get dirty. -CS
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AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 4:51pm
I believe this article is unfairly bashing the Media Center PC. Seems the "MAC Centric" author is not familar with windows. I have also read numerous articles from CNET last year bashing the Windows media PC because you could not load it on any clone desktop. Seems the mini mac would always be propietatry as all MAC products are.
I have had my media PC for almost 2 years now and have yet to see any real competion in the market for the price. I also had no issues connectin to my TV.
I am not trying to say that the media center is perfect. It still has a long way to go, but since early 2004 i have been enjoying me media center pc, where was the mini mac hten?
DocBFri 10 March, 2006 4:53pm
It was most interesting how the Dual-Mini flew right under the radar of the journalists at the announcement. There was so much pre-event hype about Video iPods etc. that no one caught the real significance of this machine. In one move Apple may capture the living room that Microsoft has been fighting for. Apple understands that if you are going to people's living rooms they want true Plug-n-Play.
Billy Gates JnrSun 12 March, 2006 12:44am
Is Microsoft paying its Redmond campus staff to write comments on various sites again?? Just because Mac Mini is better, doesnt make the article bad!
Get over it.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:06pm
If it took them hours to get Media Center set up then it was probably the hardware they chose. If they had done some research and found the right hardware it wouldn't have taken them the long time. I wish they had posted what hardware they used. Very fishy article.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:18pm
Yes, very biased and ignorant article. I've used MCE for about 4 years, have set up and installed it many times for different people, and on different tv's and different hardware. if you are halfway competent with hardware you will have no problems setting up and using an MCE PC. it just just like any other OS install, except you have to know which STANDARD hardware you can use for tv capture, video, etc...
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 11:03am
-- Yes, very biased and ignorant article. I've used MCE for about 4 years, have set up and installed it many times for different people, and on different tv's and different hardware. if you are halfway competent with hardware you will have no problems setting up and using an MCE PC. it just just like any other OS install, except you have to know which STANDARD hardware you can use for tv capture, video, etc... --
You see that is the problem with you geeks. How can you claim MCE poses no problems while in the same sentence you state you need to know about all kinds of standards (huh?) and then need to call *you* to help set it up?
GlennThu 6 April, 2006 5:14pm
You only need to know the hardware if you build your own. The Mini doesn't even come with a TV Tuner so OBVIOUSLY you have to know what hardware works withit to get tv working as well.
"You see that is the problem with you geeks. How can you claim MCE poses no problems while in the same sentence you state you need to know about all kinds of standards (huh?) and then need to call *you* to help set it up?"
AnonymousSun 7 May, 2006 1:37pm
Typical CNET article. Please hire some professional who actually research and write unbiased articles.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:29pm
Give me a break. I not going to say that I'd rather have a Mac Mini under my TV than one of those crap MC pc's. But thats ONLY because I haven't had a chance to see and evaluate the new Mini - but I definatley am liking what I've seen so far. And YES, I've seen and used several and YES, ALL OF THEM had the abnoxious fans that totally ruin the experiance in addition to some little bull-*hit niggle that made ther OVERALL experiance a pain in the ass. I would say the MC experience is pretty much on par with the MS desktop experience. So if your happy with that, then I say stick with what you know - you probably deserve it.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:12pm
How do you get MS MCE to play DVDs at the right aspect ratio on a 16:10 display device? For example, say a DVD is an anamorphic widescreen 16:9 native aspect ratio. When I play it, MCE expands it to 16:10 which makes things slightly taller and "squished" (think tall and thin) instead of putting tiny black bars at the top and bottom so that I'd see the material as it should at 16:9. None of the "zoom" settings (there are only 3) in MCE makes available fix the ratio, only making it worse. I mean, HELLO, VLC or any non-MS DVD player software gets the aspect ratio correct WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM ME AT ALL (no special "zoom" settings - the players seem to know the size of my screen and know the correct aspect ratio of the source material). Even Windows Media Player can't get the aspect ratio correct, though ALL third-party players do.
Other MCE annoyances:
*When launching MCE, it often forgets the last size I had the window at (if not in full-screen mode).
*When going from full-screen to window mode, MCE always seems to pause for a moment, then resets my mouse cursor position to the center of the screen. No other applications that have a full screen mode take as long, nor do they feel the need to reposition my mouse pointer.
*Oh, and if you don't have an official MCE remote (I prefer a wireless keyboard for all my control), quick navigating through video to where you want to be at (fast-forward/rewind) is a pain. Give me VLC's keyboard controls any day.
*In my dual-television tuner system, when using one tuner to record a program, if I'm watching the program that is being recorded, then try to change channels, MCE forgets theres a free tuner to use unless I manually tell that it's okay to change to the other tuner and let the existing tuner keep recording the program I was watching.
*One time I filled up my hard drive until it only had a gig or so of free space. While watching live television, suddenly MCE stopped and displayed a blue error screen about no available disk space. While that's okay to warn the user, that's no reason to stop displaying LIVE television. Hello, MCE, just don't spool as many minutes of live TV in the buffer, adapt to the available space! I could change channels up then back to the one I was watching, thus expunging the stored spool of live TV, and MCE would show me the live video again, until the spool filled again. Brain dead! I could write the software to figure this situation out easily.
*MCE doesn't do things intelligently when it has multiple tuners available. If I've got plenty of hard drive scratch space, when channel changing, if no tuners are busy recording, why not swap back and forth between tuners, and let the "other" (non-watched) tuner keep recording/spooling the previous channel, so if the user returns to it, the live TV buffer isn't zeroed out. This would be quite handy. With my dual-tuner system, I could jump back and forth between two channels and back up if I missed something on the other one, without having to tell MCE to actually record the program. Maybe I'm just casually surfing two programs and don't think I'll want to actually save the programs, but then I change to the other channel and notice something very interesting and want to back up a few seconds.
*MCE doesn't realize that if I press record for a program that started 5-10 minutes ago (and I have the full 5-10 minutes in the live TV buffer) it could copy the live TV buffer and have the ENTIRE PROGRAM. Instead, it starts recording "now" cutting off the 5-10 minutes that are right there in front of MCE's face in the live TV buffer.
MCE to me is a big annoying pain. But is there anything better available? I'm tempted to try a Mac mini with EyeTV or something in the future.
Richard CartledgeThu 20 April, 2006 12:38pm
What the Geeks fail to understand is that this Mac Mini is a PC, it is a fairly standard Intel PC, it can boot from a Windows XP CD and install Windows XP because it is a PC. What is superior is teh package.... The Mac OSX, the bundled software, the hardware design and the remote.
It is pretty much 'white goods' just like any other electrical item, you just turn it on and use it. 90% of people want just that, they are not nerds.
AnonymousMon 29 May, 2006 5:53pm
"What the Geeks fail to understand is that this Mac Mini is a PC, it is a fairly standard Intel PC, it can boot from a Windows XP CD and install Windows XP because it is a PC. What is superior is teh package.... The Mac OSX, the bundled software, the hardware design and the remote.
It is pretty much 'white goods' just like any other electrical item, you just turn it on and use it. 90% of people want just that, they are not nerds. "
Oh yea? Well let Microsft Make a mini computer especially designed to run their software on it. What most people fail to take in about this article is that Cnet are pitching the hardware in the Mac against thier own choice of hardware, which allowes them to manipulate it anyway they like.
And of course being retards, chose to support Mac, My family, dont know go as far as knowing how to turn on a PC. If I can build a working media center Easily, no issues at all at the age of 14 (well i was when i made it), and my family can use it with out any questions, doesn't that say something?
AnonymousTue 14 March, 2006 6:54pm
Please, tell me that someone at CNet actually knows what they are doing. This article reads like crap. It's obviously made to make the Mac look good. How about take that 3rd party USB TV Tuner off of this comparison huh? Also, how in the world do you take hours to set up the MMCPC? Really. You acknowledged that there are other MMCPCs that setup with no problem. So, why are you not reviewing those? You picked the worst from the lot (or more likely, you built a frankenstein computer) for testing. Such a terrible start to what could have been an interesting review.
AnonymousFri 24 March, 2006 12:10pm
I've been using PCs for many years now. I've recently been playing with my brother in law's iMac and I have to say, Apple are streets ahead in so many areas compared to PCs. This new front row software is so simple to use and the remote has around 5 buttons! The scroll functionality that exists in an iPod is carried through into this software and I think more and more than less is better. How many of us have VCRs that have a blinking date and time 00:00? Usability is something that technology companies fail to deliver on...especially PC manufacturers. In terms of mainstream entertainment companies like Sony, Panasonic and BenQ, I have 4 remotes in my living room and I don't know which one to pick up to control my TV/video/DVD/receiver. Each remote has 25 buttons on it all with different functions which the average user has no idea how to control. Apple seem to have mastered the way you navigate your music, photos and video. I'm migrating to the Mac as I'm able to do so many things straight out of the box. Something that would take me 2 days to complete (capture, cut and burn a DVD) on a PC will take 1 day on a Mac.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:09pm
Maybe Apple recognizes many people with satellite and other "digital" services don't need to spend any extra money on a built-in tuner.
DynaFri 10 March, 2006 5:14pm
Wait, are we comparing OS's or are we comparing an OS to a computer+an OS? I'd be all over the mac mini if i could put my soundblaster x-fi and a nice fat geforce 7800 gtx in it.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:15pm
Oh this is a disgusting display of one sided marketing! Give me a break – do you guys at CNet honestly believe that your readers are not intelligent enough to see through the bias in this? P.S. – if it took you guys hours to get Media Center to display anything on your LCD then, well yes, the Mini is for you. I think I hear your recess bell!
soft_guyFri 10 March, 2006 5:16pm
WTF with the bizzare "practically fanless" comment? "More quiet", yes. "The fan didn't kick on very much during our tests", OK. But "practically fanless" is like "almost pregnant".
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:25pm
Although, it's not a stock solution, have you tried DisplayConfigX?
http://www.3dexpress.de/
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:37pm
This article is written by biased and inept people.
I work as a photographer and my main machine is a Mac. I have some exposure to MS Windows and have been largely unimpressed. I was, however, impressed with the Media Center additions to the OS. I had no problems installing a media center pc for my parents and found the overall procedure to be smooth and painless.
It seems to me that the CNet reviewers here are either unbelievably inept at installing hardware, or have been paid by Apple. Or even worse, they haven't been paid by Apple and they are just mindless minion that gobble up whatever Apple throws at them and bash it's competition.
I'm a Mac user and can appreciate that although it is the best solution around now, it's still far from perfect.
kulivontotFri 10 March, 2006 5:39pm
So are we comparing a mac mini to a home built Media Center? Of course if you build your own Media center out of your desktop it's going to be harder to set up than a box that you plug in the wall. Perhaps you should try one of the media center boxes sold retailed by Dell that are basically standard A/V components. Hell, I built my own media center and I don't think it took me anywhere near 4 hours to set up. I see no comparison here, just mac plugs.
MichaelFri 10 March, 2006 5:46pm
Interesting that the Mini, not built specifically for multimedia "theatre" use, outperforms an MCE machine on even this basic level.
And interesting the similar comments here - as if posted by the same person...?
W RastFri 10 March, 2006 5:50pm
Bias? Geez people, take it easy!
The title specifically states "Round 1".
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:48pm
Are you guys nuts? No technical information about the MCE box or anything? Am I correct assuming that you are using a USB tuner solution in the Mac vs. a PCI based tuner solution in the MCE box. Is this fair?
I don't think even Apple would be so biased while promoting its products.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:50pm
Well, after reading this article, I have even less faith in the news from cnet. What type of video card are they using that they cant get windows to display? I have no problems at all getting any of my systems to display via s-video, DVI, or component out on several Sony HDTV's. I can get them to display native 1080i, 720p, or even 480i via component out. I didnt do anything special other than install the current drivers. Secondly, they say that media center cant export video to an ipod. Well, not natively, but with 4 pushes of my mouse I have it on my ipod video. Very very simple, again no hacking involved here. I just installed a simple free program and use nero (or other programs). This is a joke. Finally, talking about the TV downloads on itunes. They must be kidding, I personally will not violate my HDTV with the less than stellar video and ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE audio from these video downloads. I cant believe they even brought this up in talking about a media center.
Charles DunlapFri 10 March, 2006 5:53pm
This is very unfair to the Mac Mini. It's not marketed as a "media center," so the test is not valid (Front Row is found on several Mac models, it's meant as a convenience, not a full media center package). The fact that the Mac is still much easier to use for this purpose than another system designed for the task is real testament to Mac versatility and inherently good design. When Apple actually releases a "media center" product, it will not require a careful comparison to see that it is superior. It will be obviously better.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 5:58pm
Media Center is a pain in the rump. If you are programmer who likes loading patches and tweeking bit, Media Center is for you. I'm not a programmer, and I look at buy a Media Center PC as a big mistake. No support from MSFT. Patches, versions, the PC always busy downloading TV schedules, no thanks.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:17pm
Well I have a MCPC. It is a simple HP machine I bought at Fry's no tuner cards. I bough 2 tuner cards and started recording tv within 5 minutes.
I honestly have not hooked it up to my PC, but I am using a media center extender and that took me 20 minutes to set up (have to install software and enter some numbers etc).
No issues.
CNET must have a room full of monkeys trying to setup the media center box if they had issues getting to the point of recording.
As for recognizing the TV are they using the same video cards? I doubt it.
Are they using HDMI for the input? If so what output from the video card? (not owning a mac mini I have no idea about this)
Would be nice if we actually knew what was being used, how it was being connected.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:03pm
Wow. Funny how these days everyone cries about unfair bias in articles bashing Microsoft products, presumably without representing all the facts. Well, welcome to the party. For those of us who have used Apple products for years, we're quite used to our platform of choice being bashed and misrepresented by everyone from biased journalists to ignorant CompUSA employees. Are you sad because there's finally a little competition out there to go up against the monopoly? Get over it.
JeevesFri 10 March, 2006 6:17pm
Wow, I am quite surprised by the vehemence of the posters. As the author says for the technically minded, thus anyone with a maturity level of 12years old and above, is capable of installing Windows Media Center edition and getting it to work. However the caveat to this cklaim is that the hardware must be compatible from the get go and that therin is the real stinger. For the Mac enthusiast, Steve Jobs chooses what he must or must not use. For the people who value choice, Windows gives us the option to tweak and tweak and change and even , yes sometimes be frustrated, but in the end choice is supremem. Especially with regard to the hardware. If I want to get the crappiest media center ever for under 150 $ its possible or the next behemoth with 12 fans I can. Taking the average hardware is not proper testing procedures.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 1:56pm
Makes a nice change that CNET is being accused of prompoting Apple over MS - Apple has been on the CNET s**t list for a long time - witness the trumpeting of every new 'iPod killer' and the deligiht at Leap-A
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:15pm
Oh my word - just face the facts, MS products are cumbersome and awkward for most people to use. I am a computer geek and have no problems getting MS to work (along with its media center), but almost every other person I know is frustrated with MS products and loud PC fans. I recently switch to Mac and now I can see why people love them, they work seemlessly and easily...which is why I am recommending them to everyone I know as it will save me countless hours troubleshooting over the phone and via RDC. Dont get pissed at the writer of the survey for simply writing the truth...you're frustrated that he is Mac biased - yet I bet you have never spent time on a Mac to regognise all its advantages.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:17pm
Oh my word - just face the facts, MS products are cumbersome and awkward for most people to use. I am a computer geek and have no problems getting MS to work (along with its media center), but almost every other person I know is frustrated with MS products and loud PC fans. I recently switch to Mac and now I can see why people love them, they work seemlessly and easily...which is why I am recommending them to everyone I know as it will save me countless hours troubleshooting over the phone and via RDC. Dont get pissed at the writer of the survey for simply writing the truth...you're frustrated that he is Mac biased - yet I bet you have never spent time on a Mac to regognise all its advantages.
Frank BardonFri 10 March, 2006 6:24pm
Are you going to cry? Seriously, this review concludes that the Mac Mini operates better than MCE... who cares if it's one sided? One worked better than the other. Would you go raving about a couple of good features when it took you forever to setup? Or would you say "Hey! This Mac Mini is a fast machine, works perfectly and required little to no setup"?
Maybe this review was just honest and you are getting overly defensive and coming up with bad excuses ie. "This is a disgusting display of one sided marketing"
Cry about it.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:25pm
How much money does Apple have to pay Cnet for such biased reviews???
It took them hours to set up an MCE box? either they are just a bunch of fools that can't setup the MCE or they are a bunch of fools for choosing the Mac mini as an alternative.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:36pm
I was reading the article half way through and I forgot that it was talking about "Mac mini vs. Media Center"
The Media Center didn't even get 1 complete paragraph.
besides, the Miglia tuner that they used with the mac can only watch "free, over the air" channels, who watches those?
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:39pm
You should have used the TVMINI HD instead.
also remote network connection via VNC is a lot easier than using a monitor tweaking session.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:43pm
Seriously, that was the worst thing I've read in a long time. I set up my HP media center with aboslutely no problems. And contrary to your statement it doesn't "sound like a jet airplane taking off." I stream over my xbox360 which took me all of 10 minutes to set up. Please man, I hope you got paid by apple to do this advert. (And btw, I do like the mac mini, i own one).
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:56pm
There's something to be said for simplicity and "it just works". Especially, when it comes to consumer level products where being technical is a disadvantage. Given some of the comments here, it seemed there is a set of problems that exists with MC that requires "tweaking". Automatically, this shows there's more work to be done with MC to be simpler. While the Mac Mini is neat, the verdict is still not out regarding its own sets of problems as a home entertainment center. Since this article is round 1, I look forward to seeing what they can find that MC has developed over the years that Apple can adopt and even improve. In the end, I hope both platforms can evolve one another to bring a superior experience for those not technically inclined. The market for this area is huge and those of us who own stocks in either company can certainly benefit from the potential success they can achieve. Again, simplicity of function and IJW (it just works) are key factors to grow this new VCR market. Look at what iPod did to MP3 players and how it affected Apple stocks.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 7:34am
There's something to be said for simplicity and "it just works". Especially, when it comes to consumer level products where being technical is a disadvantage. Given some of the comments here, it seemed there is a set of problems that exists with MC that requires "tweaking". Automatically, this shows there's more work to be done with MC to be simpler. While the Mac Mini is neat, the verdict is still not out regarding its own sets of problems as a home entertainment center. Since this article is round 1, I look forward to seeing what they can find that MC has developed over the years that Apple can adopt and even improve. In the end, I hope both platforms can evolve one another to bring a superior experience for those not technically inclined. The market for this area is huge and those of us who own stocks in either company can certainly benefit from the potential success they can achieve. Again, simplicity of function and IJW (it just works) are key factors to grow this new VCR market. Look at what iPod did to MP3 players and how it affected Apple stocks.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 6:48pm
The mac mini when combined with a 720p or 1080i or 1080p monitor such as the Westinghouse 37" LCD which runs true 1920x1080, is beatiful. The way the mini scales up standard def content including DVDs is also pretty amazing on these monitors.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 7:32pm
Media Center has been around since what 2002? When it was first released, it had a well earned reputation for being crochety and extremely picky. I'll even concede that this wasnt ALL Microsoft's fault. The market had not matured to the point it has today, and it was a much more daunting to work with this type of equipment.
However, it is fair to point out that it has taken 3 years for MCE to reach near parity with a 1.0 apple release that is less than six months old (front row), runnning on a system and an OS not purpose built or extended for media applications. That says a lot for Apple.
The other, perhaps more relevant issue here is that he is reviewing the Mini not as a computer, but as a living room appliance. We would all do well to remember that expectations for appliances are quite a bit different than for a PC. When is the last time your DVD player Blue Screened on you, or your Receiver had a heap overflow?
The fact that the mini 'just worked' and the true assertion that MCE's ability to do the same is strongly tied to hardware choice is an important and valid point. Even serious audio and videophiles are concerned with finding what works BEST, not what will work at all.
That is, and will continue to be MCE's achilles heel, and Apple's greatest advantage in this market segment... most people cannot distinguish between a problem with cheap hardware, and a problem with the OS. A mini, or an iMac, or a PowerMac will always be a known quantity... if there is a problem, people will (usually correctly) blame Apple. On MCE if there is a problem, people will (correctly or not) generally blame Microsoft.
Biased or not, the author of ths segment of the article proves this point admirably.
melonhedFri 10 March, 2006 7:04pm
Bwaaah!!! Cry, little Windows fanboys, cry!!! Turns out the big bad PC bullies are just a bunch of crybabies!!!
melonhedFri 10 March, 2006 7:05pm
Bwaaah!!! Cry, little Windows fanboys, cry!!! Turns out the big bad PC bullies are just a bunch of crybabies!!!
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 7:07pm
Ok, Mac vs. PC asside - I'm out shopping for a HTPC- I can buy one that has a TV tuner and input for HDTV tuner or one that doesn't have a TV tuner but you can buy an add on to allow it to record video. Does anyone else out there know that Microsoft MCE isn't the only HTPC software out there? SageTV or Beyond TV - Regardless of my feelings on a soul source vendor this review does really sugar coat shortcomings with the miniPC as a HTPC solution.
melonhedFri 10 March, 2006 7:08pm
Bwaaah!!! Cry, little Windows fanboys, cry!!! Turns out the big bad PC bullies are just a bunch of crybabies!!!
BrodieFri 10 March, 2006 7:14pm
Some one is missing the big picture. It does say round one... but TV display? Are you kidding? Getting the Windows OS to display on an LCD with a specific ratio should be a joke for anyone considering the differences between a Mac and a PC for a Media Center. And in that statement there lies the next rounds... Media Center. So far we had a Mini with one USB device hanging off of it just to view and record video. Now picture the Media Center Mac.... A firewire dvd burner connected for DVD duplication, a USB media card reader for photo viewing, a fireware 500 gig HD array so you can record more then 3 hours of video, a USB sound card to get 7.1 audio, a second USB tv turner for picture-in-picture or to watch one channel while recording another, a USR IR blaster for changing the channel on your HD cable box or satellite. This isn't a Media Center Mac, this is a Media Center octopus. Oh, and front AV ports for connecting the camcorder or an LCD to display the name of that song..., they don't come in USB yet do they? So for anyone who is worried about the Mini as a Media Center device, don't be. The Mini is perfect for what it is intended; a sleek, lower priced, entry level Mac, for the PC user (or first time computer owners) who are sick of patches, viruses, and that big, noisey tower.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 7:15pm
The article's a bit brief, but the comments are HILARIOUS! Seriously, there are few things more laughable than people whining about how PC's aren't hard to set up if you're not "stupid" or how Apple must have paid money for this. As a person who has used and continues to use PC's (running a multitude of operating systems) and Macs, and supports them for a living, Apple products are so much easier to set up than a PC running Windows it's simply no contest. Grow up, morons, and please start, you know, *reading* the article - which, while being a bit brief, is rather interesting. Looking forward to round 2. Hoping the comments will be a little brighter there, but I'm not holding my breath.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 7:31pm
Myth TV, VDR, Freevo
Are you so sure that Windows Media Center is the only solution?
Oh you mean a non-free solution that can enjoy all the viruses so ok It was the only solution
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 7:58pm
It is so pathetic how the same two or three MS weenies post the same type of comments over and over to try and look like so many people agree with them. Just get over the fact that the Mac is a better solution in every area of computing, except for "gaming". You pc losers need to get off your knees and wipe your mouth clean of Billy G's splooge. Pathetic losers.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 9:20pm
It's amazing the last 6 months to a year listening or reading PC people paranoid abou Apple. It's like you know you use a totally inferior OS. On totally inferior hardware. But will just stick with to feel like you "win". You're winning a war in your own head.
I too use both OS platforms. Windows is a bear for any "average" person to get working. Apple OS X not. Same with trouble shooting an issue. A PC is a always at least a phone call to support for the "average" user. And a tech visit more than not. Apple Mac OS X they can do themselves to trouble shoot and fix even before a phone call. And that may be the issue. PC tech people make tons of money fixing the most basic PC "I can't connect to the internet" visit. $65 bucks later after a simple cabling or wrong Network setting.
Why are you PC people so afraid of Apple? It is a better computer experience for the "average" user. Media Center or not.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 7:04am
Actually the solutions mentioned above are not solutions that run on any Microsoft OS. They run on Linux. He brought them up to proove that there are other PC solutions other than Microsoft crap.
Matt "Brave enough to post my name" McKaigFri 10 March, 2006 8:18pm
"Winblows has found new hardware" vs. transparent Plug-N-Play
Obviously these people have NEVER used a mac for more than 5 minutes at the store. Ask ANYONE who has switched. They do no regret it at all...!!!
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 8:31pm
I have the windows Media Center range Extender. It makes things a lot easier to use.
I tried to connected the computer directly up to our 57 inch screen and it looked like crap and took some time to make things work just right. With the extender it is like using a VCR with no flashing clock to set. I think the biggest issue is that computer are designed to display on a monitor not a TV. The extender is design to display the content on any TV.
AnonymousSat 18 March, 2006 7:18pm
I use my Xbox 360 as the extender -- and that works great considering the Media PC is located upstairs. Just too bad that keyboards can't plug into the 360 just for use in Windows Media Centre.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 8:38pm
I'm sorry, but if you can't get a Windows PC to output to a television, you shouldn't be reviewing computers.
Plus, Mactards shouldn't be doing comparison reviews between PC's and Mac's.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 8:40pm
I'm sorry, but if you can't get a Windows PC to output to a television, you shouldn't be reviewing computers.
Plus, Mactards shouldn't be doing comparison reviews between PC's and Mac's.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 8:44pm
C|net has lost the plot. How can an informative article quote the name of one company "Miglia" with the product of another "EyeTV2" (this tuner is actually from Elgato!)??
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 9:25pm
Gee, as sit here for five hours (and counting) and remove viruses and spyware off of someone else's Windows box, I read someone has the audacity to say that (in round one) Microsoft software sucks. What a revelation! While waiting for said eradication I'm happily (and productively) using my PowerBook to get some other work done. A commercial? No... reality. Get used to it Windows lovers.
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 10:18pm
What's the configuration of the machines? Is it the Core Duo Mini?
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 10:53pm
MacMini looks pretty, and I am not endorcing MS MCE... BUT do you know anything about VIIV? Also with a Intel dual Processor, and also come very quiet(around 37dB). YOu mention difficulties to see anything on TV with MCE... have you tried this on a Viiv system? It EASY....although if you want the guide, you still have to relly on MCE to for downloading from your satalite privider which could take a couple minutes (only the first time set up) ....AND ALL Viiv system come with HD outputs..STANDARD
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 1:21am
I have had a homebrew Media Center PC for a couple of years now, love it. But if Microsoft can't/won't support HD content recording, I'll swap it out for a system that will. Not to mention, I understand Microsoft will not sell the next version as standalone software. Maybe it's time to look at Apple again???
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 1:21am
I have had a homebrew Media Center PC for a couple of years now, love it. But if Microsoft can't/won't support HD content recording, I'll swap it out for a system that will. Not to mention, I understand Microsoft will not sell the next version as standalone software. Maybe it's time to look at Apple again???
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 12:02am
Oh my word - just face the facts, MS products are cumbersome and awkward for most people to use. I am a computer geek and have no problems getting MS to work (along with its media center), but almost every other person I know is frustrated with MS products and loud PC fans. I recently switch to Mac and now I can see why people love them, they work seemlessly and easily...which is why I am recommending them to everyone I know as it will save me countless hours troubleshooting over the phone and via RDC. Dont get pissed at the writer of the survey for simply writing the truth...you're frustrated that he is Mac biased - yet I bet you have never spent time on a Mac to regognise all its advantages.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 12:33am
The Mac Mini isn't even a media center lol
surfingmarmotSat 11 March, 2006 1:50am
I find it amusing that this fairly balanced test brought out more religous M$ defenders than the Da Vinci Code brings out angry Catholics. Even more amusing is that the cowards all stayed anonymous. Notice how they don't talk objective and indpendent facts, but only offered anecdotal evidence (their own system) on how wonderful the Windows system is. Great idea, let's stop performing repeatable, sceintific studies compatring products objectively and just let anonymous cowards write in to tell us what thye think is best without any facts or proof. I am starting to think that Windows viri and worms infect the users of PCs not just the OS. ROTFLMAO.
AnonymousSun 12 March, 2006 12:07pm
The thing I find rather tragic is that the MS haters are out in force and when anyone points out that this article is biased, which it is, they are shouted and yelled at, I have said this and said it again you cannot compare a mac-mini and media center, one is an OS + hardware, the other is an OS, now if they had a specific HTPC and a mac-mini let rip, but frankly there is no reason someone could build a mac-mini style pc and stick media center on it then the whole noise issue becomes moot, if they then configure it in the factory, the whole setup issue becomes moot and then it comes down to features and usability, frontrow looks nice and is a great step in the right direction but media center outshines it in nearly every area, the only problem with it is that it is built on windows xp which brings all the security issues with it, solved with a good anti-virus. Really media center is about the best thing MS have brought out in years, and I'm writing this from my iMac...
CDBSun 12 March, 2006 4:17pm
To those who regard this as biased.
It's not biased. It's a bunch of people being enthusiastic about something after being very pleasantly surprised by it. Do you regard all such diaplays of enthusiasm a sign of bias? Do you see anything other than black and white in the world? Are people either with you or against you? Ooooh, I bet you're a fun one to be stuck in a social situation with.
Of course, you may think that their final comment about windows whoopin' the mini's behind in future episodes of the review is also biased.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 7:48am
EyeTV is Elgato software - Miglia simply bundles it with their hardware.
AnonymousSat 11 March, 2006 10:23am
It's funny, but making a Mac Mini to a Media Center was also my intention, but I would like to have a Blue Ray Player in it ;-)))
AshSun 12 March, 2006 11:55am
There's a few horrible flaws to this piece. The first is media center is an OS, a mac-mini is a piece of hardware + an OS. There is no reason why someone with some technical knowledge could not build a pc as quiet as a mac-mini and put media center on it.
Media center is a far more encompassing solution than front row, which is very restricted in what you can actually do with it (cant stream off other computers easily (if at all, not saying definitly not because I have only played with it on my iMac a bit)). Then there is a codec issue, I simply cannot find all the codecs required to play various pieces I've downloaded for my mac, this problem doesn't exist for Media Center. Media Center is windows and suffers all the same problems, but a good HTPC running media center is quiet and secure, as you don't install a ton of junk on it and you seriously cordon it off. Until frontrow adds all the options media center has already really you cant compare the two, media center wins handsdown, you can't include hardware in this test as intheory you could run XP on a mac mini if you can find a way to boot it using EFI then you benefit from all the quietness that hardware has by design.
cdbSun 12 March, 2006 4:09pm
The whole widget - and it just works.
How many times does this have to be hammered home to people before they get it. I understand fully that many people want to have the freedom for a fiddle-factor with their systems, and they are very welcome to go and put together a windows plus generic box system to allow them to do that.
Yes, someone with a little technical ability could go and build a system that is virtually silent - but how does it reflect on the various WMCE OEM's that they haven't managed to do it successfully after the OS has been available for so long already?
Why should anyone have to know anything technical beyond which cable goes where to be able to have a media PC?
Why?
If you can't answer that question, then you are reading the wrong article. Just stay away from any review that mentions a Mac, because the article is not aimed at you.
CB
TicklesSun 12 March, 2006 10:04pm
Tickles wonders why we all can't just get along?
beschlerMon 13 March, 2006 5:33pm
The Mac Mini wasn’t even intended to be compared to the MMC. Just wait, MS users, until Apple unveils their true media Mac. There will be no comparison.
KevinSat 18 March, 2006 6:07am
248 Million TV sets in the us in 2001, the Mac mini or any MCE device will have to work 100% reliable with the existing TV sets before they become main stream. IPOD worked for apple because they didn't have to work with old technology. I wonder if anyhow out there is really working on a Tivo Version for Mac, or MCE. One that just works with any TV, any Home Theater device, and isn't worried about Memory size, hard drive speed, video card. How many people know how much memory is their Tivo? probably less then 1% and why, cause they don't care. This kind of battle is meaning less but it does make CNET money. So I'm wrong it does employee people.
Kevin PFri 24 March, 2006 7:46pm
"Plus, Mactards shouldn't be doing comparison reviews between PC's and Mac's."
Before you start accusing people of being "tards," you should really learn how to use apostrophes correctly. There shouldnt be a'n'y apostrophe's your "PC's and Mac's" sentence above.
The same goes for those of you who continue to spell Mac in all uppercase letters... "MAC" is *not* an acronym for computers running the Mac OS. However, it is an acronym for "Media Access Control Layer," or the unique code assigned to most networking hardware.
Kevin PFri 24 March, 2006 7:55pm
"Plus, Mactards shouldn't be doing comparison reviews between PC's and Mac's."
Before you start accusing people of being "tards," you should really learn how to use apostrophes correctly. There shouldnt be a'n'y apostrophe's your "PC's and Mac's" sentence above.
The same goes for those of you who continue to spell Mac in all uppercase letters... "MAC" is *not* an acronym for computers running the Mac OS. However, it is an acronym for "Media Access Control Layer," or the unique code assigned to most networking hardware.
Wm. CerniukSun 26 March, 2006 2:40pm
When the Mac mini came out, I immediately bought one and connected it to my entertainment center. In reality, I gutted my entertainment center and have been trying to find a home for all of that legacy equipment. The minimac shows an outstanding display on my 50" Sony (KDF-E50A10) using DVI, feeds my Sony A/V amp and drives my Bose AM16 6.1 surround sound system beautifully. I have a silent 500GB firewire drive and have been ripping my DVDs and VHS tapes to it. The wife loves the fact that the tapes and DVDs are no longer an eyesore. Next step is converting to H.264 and going from 5GB to 1.5GB per DVD.
While FrontRow is outstanding, my 5,7 and 12 year old prefer a mouse on the arm of the couch to drive the system. FrontRow still impresses the Windows based neighbors.
Even without the amplifier and speakers, the mini-mac hooks to the 50" and makes a wonderful entertainment center in a near impossibly small box. There is no going back for me. I am buying my second one next week. My 24 band EQ, VHS, 2 cassette decks, rack mount turn table, radio tuner, CD changer, DVD player all sit in the basement collecting dust. The criminal part is that the DVD player with all of its digital connectors to insure fidelity costs as much as a low end minimac. Now I don't need the dvd player or the connectors.... one box does it all and a whole heck of a lot more.
DCFri 28 April, 2006 3:56pm
Hi All,
The Intel Mini Mac Duo is a very attractive proposition. Although it is a little pricey, I do want one in my lounge room for our large LCD HD TV. Wat I need help on is which one to buy, Intel Solo or Intel Duo? All we use it for use it as CD/DVD player, media centre player and surfing the web via the LCD HD TV.
For the purpose of a media centre, why would I opt for a duo core for another 150 pound?
What are your thoughts?
MorsiFri 5 May, 2006 12:48pm
When is round to due... we are waiting...
Casey WatsonFri 12 May, 2006 2:12am
Oranges vs. Apples?
daveMon 15 May, 2006 7:54pm
wow, this is a terrible piece. I am not an english major or anything, but I could totally tell the bias of this article after the first few sentences. To the reviewer: did you even try to do an unbiased review?
AnonymousSat 3 June, 2006 6:30pm
Error! Type mismatch!!! Can not compare a software to a software & hardware!
GJBWed 5 July, 2006 12:23pm
Reading the comments there is a bunch of sore and sorry PC/MCE owners out there. It's not about religion its about reality. CNET's article is actually spot on. Pls MCE people check it out in reality and be open minded - never be afraid to learn something.
AnonymousMon 10 July, 2006 4:01pm
ha, macs are the best. you ignorant windows users.
AnonymousThu 10 August, 2006 9:11pm
What is it about Windows PC owners that they can't see the benefit of a white box with bundled software that turns on and does what it's supposed to do. Sure you can make the PC with Media Center do everything the MAC MINI does if you have picked the right PC vendor and hardware and have the right drivers and software and the time, experience, drive and patience to do it. If that's how you want to spend time, God bless. The comment from the guy who wanted to put his GForce and Soundblaster into a Mini was especially rediculous. I talked to a guy who wouldn't get a Mini because it didn't support dual monitors...for which he had no use anyway. He was boastful that the 7 PC s in his home could have dual monitor boards if he might ever have the need. It boggles the mind...
Nick LivingstonMon 14 August, 2006 2:03pm
I have just recently purchased a mac mini purely for a media centre and it is awesome. It displays full screen on my Sony Bravia 32" LCD and it is perfect for front row. Check it out http://web.mac.com/nick_livingston/iWeb and go into "Blog" and you will find pictures of my mac mini media centre. It is the best value for money ever. I love my mac mini...."down with PC's"!!!!
AnonymousTue 26 September, 2006 3:32am
I applaud Apple on the Development of a small, affordable computer system, but this review is completely lopsided. I have had an HP Media Center Laptop for about a month, and cannot understand the problems the "author" encountered...Using s-video, Media center ran through the intial setup, and enabled the display within 30 seconds, fully adjusted. Media Center is extremely user-friendly, with a remote control allowing you to access the guide, record, get information, and control the computer quite easily. The apple remote displays the same idiotic design as the iPod shuffle. I can't say how the Mac-Mini works, and I assume it is fairly simple, but unless you are speaking a different language, media center is simple, and downloads a guide for tv once every 3 days, and takes 30 seconds...no problem there. So let's be honest...compare apples to apples, learn how to read, and give an objective viewpoint. I dislike macs as a rule, but I consider the Mac-Minia viable system for purchase...and by the way...my laptop is dead silent, as is my desktop computer, no special options...just a normal, everyday pc.
AnonymousWed 21 February, 2007 4:38pm
I think most of you are missing the point. We aren't comparing computers here, but media centres. Bear in mind the idea behind the media centre is that it's a replacement for a DVD player, hard drive recorder and music centre.
AnonymousSun 16 December, 2007 8:03am
I agree that the guys at Cnet obviously don't know what they're talking about,
"It's likely that Microsoft will scream ahead in this respect, their PVR software is far superior....."
C'mon, really. I live in Redmond, WA, and has lots of friends that works for MS. They claimed they pretty much have to push crap out the door to meet deadlines while working on patches.
AnonymousThu 20 December, 2007 8:18pm
Is there a difference? i mean, you can load windows mce on the mini mac...
AnonymousThu 10 January, 2008 1:31am
macs dont allow you to take out and reinsert cds while installing windows :|... driver issue I think, so WMC is out for macs.
AnonymousThu 10 January, 2008 12:15pm
All in all MAC is a great Consumer Tool, Microsoft office productivity.. So where does these leave you.. I run Mac, Win XP and Vista Media Centre.. I prefer the MAC in all honesty.. I even use iTunes on my Vista MC as I find it easier.. Eitherway, since VMware have released Fusion, you can buy the more reliable Mac and if you really want, run a virtual instance of Media Centre - give it a go.. It works, but don't know why you'd do it..
AnonymousFri 10 March, 2006 4:20pm
im sorry, was this a comparison or an advert?!
seriously, im with you ... but stop writing like a fanboy and remember the word "objective" before you hit submit next time.